tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post572087082549019925..comments2023-10-10T08:46:17.713-04:00Comments on drulogion: The "Raising" of Jesus (Easter, Day 5)JohnLDruryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01120179182431573460noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post-60791286103192583102011-04-29T17:37:23.949-04:002011-04-29T17:37:23.949-04:00Bill,
I've got plans on the Spirit. Be patient...Bill,<br />I've got plans on the Spirit. Be patient. <br />As for the ascension, I know I'm gonna be speaking to it by the end of this series. But I really don't know what I'm gonna say yet. We'll see ;-)JohnLDruryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120179182431573460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post-38564201640660033742011-04-29T14:48:57.507-04:002011-04-29T14:48:57.507-04:00I am a little late to the party, but I've been...I am a little late to the party, but I've been enjoying your Easter blog this past week.<br />I too was thinking of Romans 8:11 as I read through this post, but specifically thinking of the Father/Spirit in Genesis 1 appearing again here in a new creation. The Father creates, but the Spirit is the one hovering over the waters of chaos. This is more stream of consciousness than actual reasoned thought at this point.<br /><br />On a minor note, I am curious how you relate Jesus being raised/is risen/is alive to the ascension which stands squarely at the end of your series.Pastor Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05340803891890436520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post-80057495530354332072011-04-29T07:32:08.441-04:002011-04-29T07:32:08.441-04:00Oooooh! I like that!Oooooh! I like that!JohnLDruryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120179182431573460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post-60126621533390635272011-04-28T23:50:08.972-04:002011-04-28T23:50:08.972-04:00I'm just enjoying the process with you. Just a...I'm just enjoying the process with you. Just a thought as I read your response, perhaps Jesus' part in "raising himself" was dying, and therefore committing his spirit (and body) to the Father for resurrection.Paul Tillmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13828799256501318603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post-85556047384033481602011-04-28T20:17:39.085-04:002011-04-28T20:17:39.085-04:00Yes! Good thoughts. John 8 is key for that tradi...Yes! Good thoughts. John 8 is key for that traditional argument.<br /><br />That's the standard way of explaining it, i.e., Jesus as God raised himself as man (cf. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word or Aquinas, ST, Vol. III). So you are in good company!<br /><br />However, I wonder if the dominance of this pattern of thought renders the Father's action redundant. There's a place for speaking of the Son's acting. And I will do so soon -- this is just the first point of a series of three, so stay tuned. But I think we should start with where God starts, i.e., the Father as the "font of divinity," the source of the Son and the Spirit, as so appropriately the initiator of the resurrection event. <br /><br />Also, I think we have to place some strong limits on the reflexive construction if we don't want to either (a) imply that Jesus didn't really die [dead people don't do things!] or (b) imply that Jesus is a half-god, half-man, so that the the man-half dies but the god-half lives [that seems too Nestorian for my tastes]. I believe there are ways of affirming John 8 (and 10!) that don't cause these problems, i.e., the fact that Jesus has the right to pick up his life doesn't means he uses it; in a kenotic movement Jesus has willed to not use his divine right over death but to give himself up to death and into the hands of his Father to raise him.<br /><br />As for the Spirit, hooray for Romans 8:11!!! That's probably my favorite verse of Scripture! I preach on it regularly and take it as a cue for developing a fully trinitarian theology of Easter. But note: the Spirit even in that verse is the one by whom the Father raises Jesus. The Spirit is the means of the Father's act upon Jesus in that passage, not an independent agent (trinitarians are not tritheists!). But I'll admit that more needs to be said about the Spirit. Please note again that this is just the first in a series of points, so be patient. I'll get there. ;-)JohnLDruryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120179182431573460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14736201.post-28551851262043790842011-04-28T18:54:24.275-04:002011-04-28T18:54:24.275-04:00I generally take the reflective "Jesus raised...I generally take the reflective "Jesus raised himself" in sense of the divinity of the Son. Jesus was raised by the power and will of the triune God. I think the idea of Jesus being acted upon, "raised by God," as well as having his own part to play, is fitting with Jesus' own words in John 8:27-30.<br /><br />The one point I felt was missing was the Spirit's role in raising Jesus (Rom. 8:11).Paul Tillmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13828799256501318603noreply@blogger.com